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	<title>Comments on: Doctrine:  Baptism &amp; The Lord&#8217;s Supper</title>
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	<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/</link>
	<description>Gospel :: Church :: Mission :: Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Doctrine: What is the Church? (Part 2c) &#171; The Veritas Network</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doctrine: What is the Church? (Part 2c) &#171; The Veritas Network]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-51</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] that if you don&#8217;t have them then you don&#8217;t have a church.  As I have mentioned in the Doctrine Series:  Baptism &amp; the Lord&#8217;s Supper, I believe that baptism is a pre-requisite to the Lord&#8217;s Supper.  I believe that Scripture [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that if you don&#8217;t have them then you don&#8217;t have a church.  As I have mentioned in the Doctrine Series:  Baptism &amp; the Lord&#8217;s Supper, I believe that baptism is a pre-requisite to the Lord&#8217;s Supper.  I believe that Scripture [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-31</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amanda, that&#039;s a good question!  I would have to confess that I sway more to it being non-concrete.  A startling, albeit fantastic statistic over the last 2000 years of church history that we have records for is that not until the last 20-30 years have churches started changing the order of the ordinances.  Every single church that we know of practiced the ordinances by baptism, membership (though not an ordinance) and then the LS.  

Also, I would say yes it is fine to take the LS if you are a believer and visiting a church ONLY if you are a member of another church.  If you are visiting another church and are not currently a member I would say 1) get baptized by immersion if you haven&#039;t already; 2) join a church; and 3) begin to join with your local gathering in the taking of the table.  One might disagree, but I hold membership in very a high regard because it marks you out as a member of a local congregation, which in turn points to your place at the table with your brothers and sisters in Christ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amanda, that&#8217;s a good question!  I would have to confess that I sway more to it being non-concrete.  A startling, albeit fantastic statistic over the last 2000 years of church history that we have records for is that not until the last 20-30 years have churches started changing the order of the ordinances.  Every single church that we know of practiced the ordinances by baptism, membership (though not an ordinance) and then the LS.  </p>
<p>Also, I would say yes it is fine to take the LS if you are a believer and visiting a church ONLY if you are a member of another church.  If you are visiting another church and are not currently a member I would say 1) get baptized by immersion if you haven&#8217;t already; 2) join a church; and 3) begin to join with your local gathering in the taking of the table.  One might disagree, but I hold membership in very a high regard because it marks you out as a member of a local congregation, which in turn points to your place at the table with your brothers and sisters in Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: amanda</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[amanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-28</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By saying that baptism is a pre-req for church membership and Lord&#039;s supper, are you saying this is concrete?  Is there any give in this statement?  What if you are a believer visiting another church, can you partake of the LS then?  If we truly are the body of Christ, shouldn&#039;t we accept all believers to the table?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By saying that baptism is a pre-req for church membership and Lord&#8217;s supper, are you saying this is concrete?  Is there any give in this statement?  What if you are a believer visiting another church, can you partake of the LS then?  If we truly are the body of Christ, shouldn&#8217;t we accept all believers to the table?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-15</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would say yes, the LS is through faith and repentance as well as baptism and church membership.  I believe this is consistent with Scripture and Baptist church history.  What we are discussing now is the difference between open, close, and closed communion.  

For further reading on this check out... Nathan Finn&#039;s article on &quot;Baptism as  Pre-Req to the LS&quot;

http://www.baptisttheology.org/documents/BaptismasPrerequisteforSupper.pdf

Granted, I might have a minority view as far as church membership and baptism before LS, but my understanding of baptist history is that we have placed a high emphasis on the &#039;believer&#039;s&#039; church and have done so through church membership and baptism.  Baptism identifies yourself with Christ, membership places you within a local body securely by pastors/elders/congregation, and only then are we allowed at the banquet feast.

Scriptural support:  Matt. 28:18-20:  Christ&#039;s order... make disciples, baptize, and then teach them to obey.  Acts 2:41-41 shows this order even more distinctly. These verses also seem to indicate that participation in the Lord’s Supper is included among those aspects of the Christian life that follow after regeneration and baptism.  Col 2:11-13 Paul places our natural response to regeneration on baptism and shows that all people must be baptized to be incorporated into the New Testament church.  

Closely related to this argument is the question of whether or not the practice of open communion genuinely represents the spiritual reality of union with Christ?

Good discussion!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say yes, the LS is through faith and repentance as well as baptism and church membership.  I believe this is consistent with Scripture and Baptist church history.  What we are discussing now is the difference between open, close, and closed communion.  </p>
<p>For further reading on this check out&#8230; Nathan Finn&#8217;s article on &#8220;Baptism as  Pre-Req to the LS&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.baptisttheology.org/documents/BaptismasPrerequisteforSupper.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.baptisttheology.org/documents/BaptismasPrerequisteforSupper.pdf</a></p>
<p>Granted, I might have a minority view as far as church membership and baptism before LS, but my understanding of baptist history is that we have placed a high emphasis on the &#8216;believer&#8217;s&#8217; church and have done so through church membership and baptism.  Baptism identifies yourself with Christ, membership places you within a local body securely by pastors/elders/congregation, and only then are we allowed at the banquet feast.</p>
<p>Scriptural support:  Matt. 28:18-20:  Christ&#8217;s order&#8230; make disciples, baptize, and then teach them to obey.  Acts 2:41-41 shows this order even more distinctly. These verses also seem to indicate that participation in the Lord’s Supper is included among those aspects of the Christian life that follow after regeneration and baptism.  Col 2:11-13 Paul places our natural response to regeneration on baptism and shows that all people must be baptized to be incorporated into the New Testament church.  </p>
<p>Closely related to this argument is the question of whether or not the practice of open communion genuinely represents the spiritual reality of union with Christ?</p>
<p>Good discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: Gal</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-13</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess since they are both church ordinances, you would say that Baptism is a primary ordinance and Lord&#039;s Supper is secondary?  That&#039;s the only way I can figure you would be able to make baptism a pre-req.  But why is membership a pre-req for the Lord&#039;s supper if it is not an ordinance?  Seems silly to withhold the Lord&#039;s Supper (an ordinace from our Lord)  from someone b/c of they haven&#039;t met your set of extra-bibllical requirements.  I say extra-biblical because I no where see church membership, in the sense in which we are using it, in the NT.  That is not to say it is bad, on the contrary I think it is a great thing, but it is more pragmatic then scriptural.  We are born into the body of Christ when we believe and are indwelt by God&#039;s Spirit.  Being members of the body of Christ is not something we decide as ministers of the gospel, church membership is.  I&#039;m saying that membership to the body of Christ is the pre-req for the Lord&#039;s supper.  For Christ himself set forward the bread as his body and the wine as the blood of the new covenant, how do we enter into those two realities, is it through baptism and church membership or through faith in Christ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess since they are both church ordinances, you would say that Baptism is a primary ordinance and Lord&#8217;s Supper is secondary?  That&#8217;s the only way I can figure you would be able to make baptism a pre-req.  But why is membership a pre-req for the Lord&#8217;s supper if it is not an ordinance?  Seems silly to withhold the Lord&#8217;s Supper (an ordinace from our Lord)  from someone b/c of they haven&#8217;t met your set of extra-bibllical requirements.  I say extra-biblical because I no where see church membership, in the sense in which we are using it, in the NT.  That is not to say it is bad, on the contrary I think it is a great thing, but it is more pragmatic then scriptural.  We are born into the body of Christ when we believe and are indwelt by God&#8217;s Spirit.  Being members of the body of Christ is not something we decide as ministers of the gospel, church membership is.  I&#8217;m saying that membership to the body of Christ is the pre-req for the Lord&#8217;s supper.  For Christ himself set forward the bread as his body and the wine as the blood of the new covenant, how do we enter into those two realities, is it through baptism and church membership or through faith in Christ?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Greg Gibson</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Gibson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-12</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt, yes the BFM 2000 states that both the Lord&#039;s Supper and Baptism are church ordinances.  It states, &quot;Being a church ordinance [baptism], is a prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord&#039;s Supper.&quot;  

Baptist churches who hold to BFM hold that before you can take the Lord&#039;s Supper you must be 1) baptized and 2) become a church member (in that order).  For a baptist church, you must be baptized by immersion to be a member, therefor you must have done both before joining the &#039;congregational banquet feast&#039; of the &#039;Lord&#039;s Supper.&#039;  There are different view points within the Baptist world on open, close, and closed as well.

Also, as a baptist I would say that the LS is in fact a &#039;church ordinance&#039; and because I understand the church to have begun at Pentecost (and after the Lord instituted the LS), I would say that the issue of the disciples being not baptized does not held relevance to the church under the new covenant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, yes the BFM 2000 states that both the Lord&#8217;s Supper and Baptism are church ordinances.  It states, &#8220;Being a church ordinance [baptism], is a prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord&#8217;s Supper.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Baptist churches who hold to BFM hold that before you can take the Lord&#8217;s Supper you must be 1) baptized and 2) become a church member (in that order).  For a baptist church, you must be baptized by immersion to be a member, therefor you must have done both before joining the &#8216;congregational banquet feast&#8217; of the &#8216;Lord&#8217;s Supper.&#8217;  There are different view points within the Baptist world on open, close, and closed as well.</p>
<p>Also, as a baptist I would say that the LS is in fact a &#8216;church ordinance&#8217; and because I understand the church to have begun at Pentecost (and after the Lord instituted the LS), I would say that the issue of the disciples being not baptized does not held relevance to the church under the new covenant.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gal</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-11</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t the Lord&#039;s supper an ordinance too?  Why would you not let a believer who has not been baptized take the Lord&#039;s supper?  Had the disciples been baptized when the Lord first instituted the Lord&#039;s supper?  Does the BFM say you should be baptized before being allowed?

Lots of questions, fun little blog fellas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the Lord&#8217;s supper an ordinance too?  Why would you not let a believer who has not been baptized take the Lord&#8217;s supper?  Had the disciples been baptized when the Lord first instituted the Lord&#8217;s supper?  Does the BFM say you should be baptized before being allowed?</p>
<p>Lots of questions, fun little blog fellas.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://theveritasnetwork.org/2010/01/20/doctrine-baptism-the-lords-supper/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Craig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theveritasnetwork.org/?p=420#comment-9</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just curious, what is the definition of a church ordinance?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious, what is the definition of a church ordinance?</p>
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